Star Wars Movie and Streaming Series Discussion

[Ru1977]

I get not everyone is into some of those ideas.... but I'd be pretty excited for several of them.

 

[docsilence]

I think there's two segments of viewers, with overlap: the ones who want stories that forever tie back into the original, core, tales, and those who want to explore the parts of the setting we haven't seen yet. And Disney only really cares about making money in the end (I do think the CREATORS all care about telling good stories).

I think as long as the fandom doesn't behave in a toxic manner, there is room for both - we could have Knights of the Old Republic AND Luke's Lost Years spinoffs and both have the potential to be great stories. Of course we're asking Star Wars fans to not be toxic or pissed off if every single product ISN'T tailored to their exact tastes and, well, we have almost 50 years of proving a huge swath of the fandom will never remove that particular stick from that particular orifice.

I honestly think our best examples of well-behaved fans have been stuff like the Bad Batch and Skeleton Crew--the anti-animation folks didn't complain Bad Batch exists, the grown men didn't complain that they made a show about and pretty much FOR kids. If people could CALIBRATE THEIR ENTHUSIASM, as Partagaz would say, everyone can have fun. But there will always be people who, y'know, get mad that the lead of Outlaws is a woman they don't think is sexy or whatever.

 

[docsilence]

(Addendum:
1: my headcanon is "calibrate your enthusiasm" was Tony nodding at the fans and
2: I should go back and play Outlaws. Has anyone tried it? Calibrating my enthusiasm, just wondering if it's super frustrating or not. I get angry at games way too easily unless they've got an easy mode a bonobo could successfully play.)

 

[Ru1977]

I haven't tried it but still want to damnit.

 

[Damien]

but the exact same stories set in another "universe" wouldn't have interested me.

I feel like that can be said of a lot of things, though. Is Captain America: The First Avenger a really compelling story all on its own, or does it depend on the connection it has to the rest of the universe it inhabits?

That being said, I think what makes Star Wars interesting is the setting itself and not necessarily the connection a story may or may not have with a particular family of Space Jesuses. But that's also just me and I'm very much a 'setting first' kind of guy a lot of the time.

2: I should go back and play Outlaws. Has anyone tried it? Calibrating my enthusiasm, just wondering if it's super frustrating or not. I get angry at games way too easily unless they've got an easy mode a bonobo could successfully play.)

I haven't played it yet. Even after all the fixes they've done, it still has very mixed reviews in terms of gameplay (and obviously terrible reviews because girls are gross, or something). One thing I haven't really heard is that it's difficult. Seems to skew towards relatively easy (comparatively, of course - it depends on how good you are generally at video games). After the newest patch that is, I believe, coming out right away; it seems like they will have given players a lot more options to just brute force their way through a lot of sections rather than getting bogged down in forced stealth - which is usually the thing that trips people up because auto-fail states in video games are stupid and punish people that aren't glued to their game systems in every possible free moment of their lives.

I was thoroughly unimpressed with everything that was said about the game early on. But I'm actually -somewhat- eager to give it a try after all the fixes/changes that have been done since release to bring it up to player expectations.

 

[joshsquash729]

It's definitely a double-edged sword (lightsaber?) when it comes to Legacy Characters- can we help it that a lot of Star Wars characters just look/act so cool that we want to know more? I do generally agree that some benefit from not knowing. Not every single background alien needs an in-depth spinoff, but some of the bigger names, why not? Especially someone like Grievous that not only got pretty nerfed from his original appearance, but at least onscreen didn't really get even the slightest bit of characterization beyond "cyborg general trained in the Jedi arts by Count Dooku". I know the Filoni Clone Wars went a smidge more in depth with him, but even still, it kinda left more questions than answers (plus it was early Clone Wars, so one could argue it hadn't really hit its stride yet).

But I do agree with Vader not needing a spinoff. The prequels (heck, the PT and the OT, really) are his story. He got some kickass moments in Rogue One and Kenobi, but he definitely suffers from Jack Sparrow Syndrome- the more you know about him and the more you see him, the less interesting he becomes. Especially when he needs to be kept behind a mask most of the time and can't emote, and as iconic as JEJ's voice is, the way Vader is characterized means his voice can't really show emotion beyond intimidation (case in point- both "Noooo!" scenes they've done with him).

2: I should go back and play Outlaws. Has anyone tried it? Calibrating my enthusiasm, just wondering if it's super frustrating or not. I get angry at games way too easily unless they've got an easy mode a bonobo could successfully play.)

Funny enough, I just started back into it last night after taking a few months off. Took me a minute to get back into the swing of things, but I'm enjoying it. It's definitely a "calibrate your enthusiasm" kind of game- very kinda classic GTA/open world fare: lots of "Go to point A to get the quest, then go to point B to do the quest, then back to point A to finish the quest", with an occasional "point C" thrown in. Like a more modern Mass Effect with a Star Wars skin in that it's doing lots of tasks for people to raise your reputation with certain people/factions. It's nowhere near as linear as Fallen Order/Survivor was, but there's just as much, if not more, customization for Kay, Nix, your ship, your speeder. There's a ton of stuff to do- hacking, races, Sabaac games (that I'm pretty terrible at), you can choose to do a lot of missions with stealth or combat, some space combat (and the seamless ground-to-space thing is pretty cool).

I admittedly seem to have missed a lot of the rough parts, so the game I came back to is a lot more polished and patched, which I'm sure is affecting my enjoyment. Also, the way I play, I'm not that far into the story yet- still exploring the first big planet and working on building up my reputation. It does seem like the first handful of hours is a lot of grinding- you have to update your ship, your speeder, blaster, etc. before a lot of the mechanics really come into focus and feel smooth, but if you don't mind that, there's a ton to do (even if it can get a little repetitive at times). But I'm quite enjoying it; I like most of the characters, and would happily take a few Black Series if/when they were ever made.

 

[Chooch555]

I played it up to the point where they introduce the idea of gaining reputation across the different clans and then went back to finish off Lego Star Wars. I'll pick it back up, but it's not pulling at me. I damn near threw the disc away when I couldn't hack the first door on the beat until I saw you could disable that feature. I gots no rhythm.

 

[Ru1977]

I do agree with Vader not needing a spinoff.

I get that, and maybe LFL agrees since I would have thought after Rogue One was when the iron was hottest. I don't need him to emote or grow as a character. Vader should be Vader, and that's why I think an Empire series would be cool, and Vader could show up in a couple of episodes. But when I think of Vader on screen, I think of moments like "You're surrounded, Vader"/"I'm only surrounded by fear and dead men". So really, I want stories Vader can show up in. And DOES show up in, since he could have shown up on Andor.

 

[docsilence]

There were some recent (and by recent I mean like, the last 15 years) comics that centered on Vader that did a good job of telling a Vader-centric story. I do think of all the Star Wars things, anything Skywalker related is what I'm least interested in right now, but he could carry a series with the right writer.

One of the reasons I avoided Jedi Survivor was it was so linear. I find I like slow, unchallenging, open-world or turn-based stuff most. I'm stressed out 98% of the time, so I don't want games that also challenge me. I want games that assume I'm there for the vibes.

 

[Ru1977]

Right, anytime I think of Vader stories, the comics really provide. I mentioned before, but there was the one I think Dark Horse did, which I believe was titled Empire, about Moff Trachta leading a coup with other Imperial officers. They decided the Empire shouldn't be controlled by religious zealots like the Sith and plotted to assassinate Palpatine and Vader simultaneously. I could see something like that being great on screen.

 

[Ru1977]

I find I like slow, unchallenging, open-world or turn-based stuff most. I'm stressed out 98% of the time, so I don't want games that also challenge me. I want games that assume I'm there for the vibes.

I think I may be the same way actually. I've mentioned how much I enjoy the sandbox option on the Jurassic World game, just designing my damned dinosaur park however I like without worrying about breakouts or researching DNA etc. I have NEVER played GTA as intended; I just wander around blowing things up. I never finished Fallen Order. it was VERY cool but yeah, not what I'm into these days. That said, I've completed the campaign on every Call of Duty I've ever owned, so.... dunno.

 

[docsilence]

Y'know, as much as I like "let's not redeem the space fascists" theme that Andor provided, mundane Imperials who figure out religious zealots are leading their government and attempt a coup (knowing as we do that they are destined to fail!) could be a hell of a follow up as a Star Wars spy thriller.

The games that have held my attention for months or years lately are very few: Baldurs Gate 3, Outer Worlds, Fallout 4, and my occasional revisitation of Skyrim--yeah, I'm THAT lame. I did finish the first Spider-Man Playstation game but was too busy to get into Miles or SM2, though I loved the first one, especially because it recreated swinging through NYC so well it made me nostalgic for my time living there (even though I still have a love/hate relationship with Manhattan and wouldn't move back even if I were suddenly insanely wealthy). I think what I really want is a modern KOTOR or maybe I should just log back into Star Wars: The Old Republic again and get my SW game fix there. I wonder if the SW as GTA vibe of Outlaws would scratch the itch.

I wish they hadn't canceled Underworld, and I will forever wonder WTF was going on with Star Wars: Eclipse though.

 

[Ru1977]

Y'know, as much as I like "let's not redeem the space fascists" theme that Andor provided, mundane Imperials who figure out religious zealots are leading their government and attempt a coup (knowing as we do that they are destined to fail!) could be a hell of a follow up as a Star Wars spy thriller.

I wonder if the SW as GTA vibe of Outlaws would scratch the itch.

Hrm. Now I remember I didn't get the game because I was worried I would get addicted to it, heh.

I wish they hadn't canceled Underworld

Yeah, same!

 

[fac]

They could combine the "coup" plot mentioned with Vader maybe manipulating it to happen? To me the only Vader story I want to see is how broken he was after Padme died and what does he think about being "more machine now than man" - I think that could be an interesting story. As it stands now Anakin goes from being power hungry and angry to murdering children, his pregnant wife and trying to kill his best friend in a few days, and then goes on to be pure evil for 20 years, before he flips to being a good guy again only a few minutes after being prepared to kill Luke and move on with Leia by his side. I mean it is a great moment when he turns on the Emperor, but to me it would even be better if we didn't think he and Palpy were a team on the same page for 20 years but instead he was more an abused servant

I think the worst thing they did with Vader is end the PT with him so quickly becoming Palpy's lap dog. He should be furious at Palpy after realizing he was played, and maybe even created, to be a servant/tool and that he got nothing he wanted that Palpy promised - Padme to be alive, the Jedi to respect him, etc. I will argue seeing him wanting to take over and acknowledging that he really hates Palpy but is intimidated/controlled by him would go a long way to continuing his tragic arc and also make you think that Luke has no hope of bringing him around - Vader needs to be in a abusive relationship with Palpy, which only fuels his anger towards everyone else.

I am unclear if the Sith (or Jedi) are actually "religious" per se and if anyone actually knows that the Emperor is a Sith (or if Sith is even a term anyone knows about). Apart from ANH, where Han and Tarkin both reference the Jedi as a religion, there isn't a whole lot that suggests the Jedi are practicing religious belief per se. But a lot of that depends on how "the force" is defined - is it a divine or supreme being (no evidence that they feel that way) they are following, or a connection to the universe they trust in. After ANH I feel Lucas, via Yoda, moved the Jedi to being spiritualists/naturalists with a creed/philosophy more than a potential religion with beliefs and dogma, and a deity of some sort, and by the PT they are like the Knights of the Roundtable more than anything.

 

[Ru1977]

The ROTS novel and Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader sequel both did a great job, to me, of getting into his head and how miserable he was all the time. It even showed how aware he was of being played by Palpatine but he also came to realize he didn't care. He full embraced his role, reinforcing the whole thing that is shown when he turns on Padme: he was always just a power hungry piece of shit.

And I still don't see Vader as redeemed at all. He did ONE good thing for one person he care about. For Luke, obviously that's wonderful, but I don't think it absolves him of anything at all.

Another one, I think came from the Shadows of the Empire book, when he was in his chamber from ESB and the machine is helping him breathe, but he focused on his anger toward Obi-Wan so hard that he was able to use the dark side to breathe on his own a moment. but the elation he felt cancelled his anger out, and it stopped pretty quickly. I think that was the first time I saw him as kinda human. A retched human, but still a human.

Could these kind of moments fill a show or movie? Like Doc said, with the right writer(s), absolutely. Is it necessary? Nah, nothing is necessary anymore. But it could be great, and even make for a decent commentary on depression and self sabotage.