The Reading Room

[yojoebro82]

I began reading The Hobbit in the summer of 2019. Then I started the Fellowship of the Ring. Spring of 2020 my youngest was borne and reading took a long pause. Slowly, slooooooooooowly got back into it. Now six years later I am two chapters away from finishing Return of the King! The long journey is nearly at an end.

 

[yojoebro82]

Finished the epic saga of Lord of the Rings the other day.

Turning back to comics now. Reading the X-Cutioner's Song crossover, one of the first X-Men stories I've ever read. This whole ark, the writing, the art, is the 90's going hard.

 

[Damien]

Finished the epic saga of Lord of the Rings the other day.

Well, you can't just say that. Thoughts?

 

[yojoebro82]

Well, you can't just say that. Thoughts?

Oh I enjoyed it. I saw the movies first, of course (extended editions all the way for me), I usually rewatch them once a year. I did the same thing with Harry Potter, movies first, then books. The broad strokes of the story are all there in the movies but the books just take it to a whole other level of detail. I felt like I've been given more time with characters I love and I got to see them in a different way. Overall I have to say I may enjoy the movies more. This may be a product of me growing up in the age of big budget Hollywood, but that Helm's Deep battle in the movie was so memorable, TBH it's pretty forgettable in the book. I do like how they dealt with Sauruman better in the books (though I question the Ents just letting him walk away. Any chance he could have caused more trouble? Yup.). Faramir and Eowyn's relationship was done more justice in the book, in the movie Faramir seemed like a consolation prize because she couldn't have Aragorn, they just had no time to get to their story. The movie had like five or six scenes that could have all worked as final scenes and whenever I watch them I am frustrated that they couldn't trim that down. I appreciated Tolkien's in-depth description of every single aspect of Middle Earth but ultimately I often was eager for him to get on with the plot. So those are just some thoughts off the top of my head. Glad I read them, I may go back to them someday, but I think I have to give it to the movies over the book.

EDIT: I will say that I am in a swords and sorcery kind of mood every so often. I've had these books with me for the last 6 years and reading them in the hammock on my mother in law's farm or at the end of the dock at my buddy's cabin brought me profound peace and joy. If anyone has other books to recommend along the lines of LOTR, whether it's by Tolkien or otherwise, let me know. (My area's Renaissance Festival starts at the end of the month, I just ordered me a new Treebeard t-shirt today!)

 

[Damien]

EDIT: I will say that I am in a swords and sorcery kind of mood every so often. I've had these books with me for the last 6 years and reading them in the hammock on my mother in law's farm or at the end of the dock at my buddy's cabin brought me profound peace and joy. If anyone has other books to recommend along the lines of LOTR, whether it's by Tolkien or otherwise, let me know. (My area's Renaissance Festival starts at the end of the month, I just ordered me a new Treebeard t-shirt today!)

Love it. To your question; I don't think there IS anything quite like LotR. That kind of.. optimistic but still rich and terrible fantasy just is not something that comes along very often. There's a lot of fantasy books/series that I like. There's a lot that I LOVE. There's even some, dare I say, that I may prefer reading over LotR. But I can't think of anything that really does what LotR does.

I can appreciate someone for whom the movies are where it's at. For me, I think it depends on what I'm after. I prefer the movies if I want to turn my brain off and just enjoy. But for the actual story and living with the characters and all that, it really is the books for me. I feel like the movies, as good as they are (and I absolutely love them) make some critical mistakes that I, personally, have a lot of trouble dealing with as a viewer.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

To your question; I don't think there IS anything quite like LotR.

This is right. Tolkien, though often copied, is a singular vibe.

The closest to his work that I've read is C.S. Lewis and Ursula Le Guin. I've heard folks say Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, but I haven't read that yet.

The movie had like five or six scenes that could have all worked as final scenes and whenever I watch them I am frustrated that they couldn't trim that down.

RotK's false endings are one of my favorite things about it. Each one hits harder than the last.

 

[Damien]

The closest to his work that I've read is C.S. Lewis and Ursula Le Guin. I've heard folks say Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, but I haven't read that yet.

I have STRONG opinions about Wheel of Time. Mostly that it's basically 2 books that can comfortably be 4 books, that he somehow turned into 14 books in some kind of weird parody. If you shave off the filler and some of the names, it feels very much like the same conversations and the same situations and stuff over and over again. How many times do people get kidnapped in WoT? Like I said, the entire series basically becomes parody of itself.
And, my personal opinion, it's not even very good.

I think a lot of fantasy fans can get hung up on what they consider an interesting or unique bit of world-building and equate that with good -stories.- I'd argue Brandon Sanderson falls into that category. His books fucking suuuuuuuuuuck. I've rarely been so bored and disinterested while reading anything. I'd rather read the ingredient list on an off-brand medication than a Brando Sando pile of drivel. BUT, people love it. And I really think a lot of that comes down to it being -different- than a lot of what's out there.

So the guy gets insanely popular, finishes Robert Jordan's terrible books, and gives lectures and courses on how you, too, can be a shitty fucking writer that bores the audience to death.

C.S. Lewis wrote stories I also hate, and I don't consider them even remotely close to what LotR was doing. In fact, in some ways, they're the polar opposite. C.S. Lewis was more interested in his part-time pursuit of instigating Furry Jesus than in writing good fiction though, so there's that. The Earthsea books are amazing though. I can definitely get behind recommending those to LotR fans uncritically.

 

[Ru1977]

I was one of those who read Lord of the Rings annually for years, but I think I've read them once since the movies came out. Now I watch the extended trilogy semi-annually, and appreciate how they condensed so much and still remember the books with a ton of fondness. I just never went any deeper with that genre.

 

[docsilence]

i've been struuuuuggling to get into a good sword and sorcery series lately. I read the first books in several series and I've come to realize that way, way too many series require you to read the first 600 page book before the story starts to actually happen. I was looking for a gritty, dark fantasy series to read and kinda bombed out on a few that all came highly recommended:

• The Emperor's Blades by Brian Staveley - this was... okay, but I was irritated that I really only cared about the characters in the last 60 pages.
• Promise of Blood by Brian McClellan - this was an interesting concept but I found the story wasn't compelling. I'm also really tired of "aging, brilliant commander who never shows that he is brilliant in the story" stories.
• Beyond Redemption by Michael R. Fletcher - title matched my feeling of this book. I actually found it actively unpleasant.
• The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch - This was disappointing because it was recommended for dark, gritty reading and it was... fucking adorable for 90% of the book, like a Dickens novel, and then takes a gruesome turn so late that it felt unearned, I guess. LIke it was fine, but I don't need to read the rest.

It was just really weird to read four books in a row that were part of series and all of them left me like, well that was a book.

Joe Abercrombie's the Devils however was a LOT of fun, though not my favorite of his books. Chewed through it and wanted more.

And then I picked up Shadow of the Gods by John Gwynne, loved it, immediately picked up book 2 and 3. It's kind of self-indulgent Viking-themed fiction and I honestly had the thought: are fantasy stories using Viking themes just Romantasy for dudes? And I think they are, but I'm also perfectly okay with that and will read more of it. Like if there is a word from Viking culture that could be stuffed into this fantasy novel it has been stuffed into it, but it's just fun and dark so I'm into it.

Outside of the fantasy genre, I read the Hollows by Daniel Church and it is somehow the perfect combination of two genres I love - subterranean creepy monsters and nordic noir. (Okay it takes place in the UK but you could drop it into a nordic country and it'd feel just right.) Probably my favorite book of the year so far.

By contrast, I read All the Fiends of Hell by Adam Nevill, whom I usually like (the Ritual translated SO well to film) but it's a bit.. too ambitious I think? It's not bad, but it almost felt like where he's someone who specializes in small, terrifying folk horror, aiming for cosmic horror might have been biting off too much. I wouldn't NOT recommend it, though, it's a solid read, just not his best book.

I have STRONG opinions about Wheel of Time.

Oh boy, so do I. I read most of the series when I was young and really enjoyed the first five or six books, then felt like I was being led on, dropped it... and when I was in B&N with a friend and saw "the final book" on an endcap I turned to my friend and said "oh hey he finished it! I really thought the man would drop dead before he did that." I did not know HE HAD ACTUALLY DIED. I felt a little bad about that. But WoT is... boy, it's got some things that are fun to tinker with, but it isn't half as clever as it thinks it is. I was just talking about the TV series and how hated it was by his fans and I, someone who ENJOYED the first half-dozen books, think the show was doomed to fail because it was too rangy and winding to translate to screen anyway, and the show did an honorable, admirable job with an impossible task. It wasn't great but boy those folks tried their asses off to work with what they had. I tried to re-read the books the past few years, and I mean I have started book one three times and couldn't get invested again. I've changed too much or something.

I swear I refuse to read Sanderson BECAUSE people love him so much. Part of it is professional jealousy (If you ever want to chew through a wall, read about his work life balance and daily schedule) but I also just...eh. Life's too short.

I think I've been looking for fantasy that doesn't play by the old rules, though. My favorite fantasy books the past few years were by Christopher Beuhlman, but he's a horror writer by trade so he wrote these elegantly short, NON-EPIC fantasy stories. Small, grim, ruminations on a dark world past its prime, moody and contemplative, and with the most ball-shriveling, horrifying take on goblins I've ever read.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

I've been in a slump, as well. I find it hard to concentrate on reading when *gestures broadly*. What I have been reading hasn't done much for me.

I think I finally broke through with the book I'm reading now, but I don't want to jump the gun. I'm only about 100 pages in, and it's a long one. I'll have more when I finish it.

I think a lot of fantasy fans can get hung up on what they consider an interesting or unique bit of world-building and equate that with good -stories.- I'd argue Brandon Sanderson falls into that category.

When I got back into fantasy, Sanderson and Rothfuss were my gateways. I think Sanderson is a good storyteller. The Way of Kings is one of my favorite books because it has big emotions and an incredible climax. For the most part, I like his characterization.

Since then, I've read almost everything he's written. I don't think that's done him any favors. Of his work, I'd recommend Skyward (just book one), Elantris & The Emperor's Soul, and the Stormlight series. I love Words of Radiance (Stormlight 2). Since then, the Stormlight series has been diminishing returns. His last book, Wind and Truth (Stormlight 5), was a parody. It's repetitive, overly long, features juvenile humor, and has his weakest prose in years.

I like Sanderson, but he's the crowd pleaser. That comes with obvious pros and cons.

I have similar feelings about Rothfuss. The Name of the Wind is one of my favorite books. I couldn't have been more turned off by its sequel.

C.S. Lewis wrote stories I also hate, and I don't consider them even remotely close to what LotR was doing. In fact, in some ways, they're the polar opposite. C.S. Lewis was more interested in his part-time pursuit of instigating Furry Jesus than in writing good fiction though, so there's that. The Earthsea books are amazing though. I can definitely get behind recommending those to LotR fans uncritically.

I read The Chronicles of Narnia series in elementary school. I really liked it as a nine-year-old. Much to Lewis's chagrin, I didn't pick up on the Jesus allegory at all.

I compare them because I find they're tonally similar. LOTR was like PG+. It's hard to think of many fantasy series that don't dip into grimdark, politics, or sexual fantasy. (Or all three, if you're lucky.)

The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch - This was disappointing because it was recommended for dark, gritty reading and it was... fucking adorable for 90% of the book, like a Dickens novel, and then takes a gruesome turn so late that it felt unearned, I guess. LIke it was fine, but I don't need to read the rest.

Bummed to hear you say this. The Lies of Locke Lamora is another favorite of mine. I know exactly where you bounced off; I bounced off at the same point for the same reason. I was able to look past that, obviously.

I'd encourage you to continue the series, but the second book was a slog for me. I loved the third one, but I can't recommend it knowing what comes next.

 

[docsilence]

Bummed to hear you say this. The Lies of Locke Lamora is another favorite of mine. I know exactly where you bounced off; I bounced off at the same point for the same reason. I was able to look past that, obviously.

I'd encourage you to continue the series, but the second book was a slog for me. I loved the third one, but I can't recommend it knowing what comes next.

I'm sure you know the exact spot. I think it's knowing too much about the craft of things - it felt like Lynch got to a certain point, realized he needed a catalyst moment, and just started setting fire to everything all at once. I will say I think the prose in Locke Lamora is gorgeous. Unlike some of the others I mentioned, I fully think it's a QUALITY book. But I was just done after the first book. I didn't care enough about the survivors. Actually compared to the others, which were like "oh eff you dude, you STARTED the plot at the end of book 1?" Locke felt like a self-contained fairy tale and stands on its own as a novel. The others feel like 400 page prologues.

 

[cmoney]

I'm way more sci-fi oriented than fantasy oriented, and I tend to read a lot of non-fiction too. I try to hit a book a week most years (currently at 33), and I also read a lot of comics. I recently finally got a copy of Outrageous Conduct, a book about the tragedy on the Twilight Zone movie set, that was written back at the time and has been out of print for years. Could never find a copy under $50 until a couple weeks ago. So that's what I'm reading right now, but I technically started two other books at the same time (The Werewolf Principle, some old 60s sci-fi by Clifford D. Simak, and Hard to be a God, more 60s sci-fi from the Russian writers Arkady and Boris Strugatsky).

 

[Chooch555]

A friend got me on Wheel of Time back in my 20's. I made it to whenever the interminable desert camping happened and tapped out.

 

[yojoebro82]

There's a lot of fantasy books/series that I like. There's a lot that I LOVE. There's even some, dare I say, that I may prefer reading over LotR. But I can't think of anything that really does what LotR does.

Shoot me some names when you have a chance.

 

[Damien]

I mentioned in the other thread I was gonna talk about Burroughs; I dislike him. The first John Carter story was pretty good. Maybe the first two. But they get VERY samey and progressively more out there and ridiculous and contrived as they go on. Also, there's some serious white saviour/the superiority of the American MAN, stuff going on that I got more and more put off by as I read more stories. It's a lot like realizing Lovecraft is a raging racist. Once you see it, you can't UNSEE it. At least Lovecraft's stories were almost universally really good. Burroughs' aren't.

I was one of those who read Lord of the Rings annually for years, but I think I've read them once since the movies came out. Now I watch the extended trilogy semi-annually, and appreciate how they condensed so much and still remember the books with a ton of fondness. I just never went any deeper with that genre.

Yeah, I've probably only re-read LotR twice since 2003. To be fair, though, I think that also has a lot more to do with how much time I have available. I love comfort reading my favorites, but I also hate myself for doing it nowadays because I'm so time-constrained and I have so many NEW things I want to read. It's faster/easier to throw in a movie I've watched and let it play while I kind of do other things or when I otherwise wouldn't be able to read for whatever reason anyway.
And honestly, I usually don't make it through my movie re-watches either. I bought the blu-ray set like a year ago. My son and I made it through the first half of Fellowship and haven't gone back since.

And then I picked up Shadow of the Gods by John Gwynne, loved it, immediately picked up book 2 and 3. It's kind of self-indulgent Viking-themed fiction and I honestly had the thought: are fantasy stories using Viking themes just Romantasy for dudes? And I think they are, but I'm also perfectly okay with that and will read more of it. Like if there is a word from Viking culture that could be stuffed into this fantasy novel it has been stuffed into it, but it's just fun and dark so I'm into it.

Dude... when I started reading your post, before I got to this paragraph, I was immediately like 'I gotta fucking tell him about Shadow of the Gods!' I absolutely LOVE that series. It's so goddamn good. I read them as they came out, and it was actually painful for me to wait for the next book each time.

I think I've said this before, but I also cannot recommend Rage of Dragons strongly enough. It's the first book by Evan Winter. Fires of Vengeance is the second one. The final book isn't out yet. It's African-themed fantasy. It's REALLY good. I've been stamping my feet waiting for book 3. I will literally put down whatever I'm reading the day that book comes out. Unless it's the new Gael Song book, because that series is also incredible.

I was just talking about the TV series and how hated it was by his fans and I, someone who ENJOYED the first half-dozen books, think the show was doomed to fail because it was too rangy and winding to translate to screen anyway,

WOT is quite literally the only time in my life I ever thought 'I hope they don't adapt this faithfully, because it will suck.' They should have gotten a talented writer that loves fantasy to come in and basically re-draft the entire WOT story into something that would actually work for an adaptation. Like Dragonball Z Kai: Remove all the shitty filter and get to the fucking point. THEN, it actually probably good be a good, fun story.

I think I've been looking for fantasy that doesn't play by the old rules, though.

Read Rage of Dragons by Evan Winter.

I've been in a slump, as well. I find it hard to concentrate on reading when *gestures broadly*. What I have been reading hasn't done much for me.

I get it. I've found Shauna Lawless' Gael Song series is what helped me, more recently, kind of get out of my funk. That and, believe it or not, Warhammer 40k books. It's so wildly and hilariously grimdark that it really plays into the 'so dark it's a parody of being dark while still being dark' thing that it helps me forget how shitty the real world is because it almost makes a parody of how bad things can get, if that makes sense.

It's repetitive, overly long,

To me, this sums up Sanderson generally. Good for him, don't get me wrong, he found a niche that people like and will keep giving him money to produce. So he does. He just keeps making the same stuff. I fully get that people like it. But I hate it. I've read 3 different books from different series, because he comes so highly recommended, and I hated them all. Way of Kings was definitely the worst. I had to buy it on Kindle to give it a second try because I LITERALLY threw the physical book in the garbage when I got most of the way through that 'laying bridges across cliffs' or whatever bullshit that lasted WAAAAAY too fucking long, made no goddamn sense, and was possibly the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read in any book, ever. Came back to it about a year later on Kindle, skipped that entire part, and still ended up thinking the book sucked balls.

Sanderson, to my mind (and JUST my opinion) is the worst popular writer in modern history.

I compare them because I find they're tonally similar. LOTR was like PG+. It's hard to think of many fantasy series that don't dip into grimdark, politics, or sexual fantasy. (Or all three, if you're lucky.)

Totally get that. I tend to think that a lot of pre-teen fantasy feels more LotR like in certain, very specific respects. Stuff like Dragonlance, and even some Pathfinder and Forgotten Realms books. But, of course, they DON'T feel LotR like because the prose is dumbed down in that very modern way we do when we write for young people. Something Tolkien definitely did not do.

I'm way more sci-fi oriented than fantasy oriented

I don't read a ton of sci-fi these days, but I enjoyed the hell out of Children of Time and really need to get through some other stuff so I can get to the other two books. And I definitely want to read some of the other stuff from the same author. Of course, I read a lot of Warhammer 40k as pallet cleansers, but I'd almost call that more fantasy than sci-fi despite all the spaceships and laser guns.