Harvinger Studios, Savage Crucible

[TheCaptain]

I think starting with the lizards was a bad choice because it made them just another third party company doing random weird monster guys and stuff, and a lot of people just kind of ignored them, or maybe grabbed a lizard to fight Mezco Conan and then never thought about Harvinger again.

Growing pains.

One piece of advice that's stuck with me and I think about it every time I prepare for a market or artist alley or whatever is "always be prepared for success". Harvinger has had the capacity to steal a huge portion of the Mythic Legions collector base as well as bringing in new collectors with unique licenses and unsurpassed quality for the price. But they seem to be playing it way too safe, thinking of themselves as still a supplementary line to Legions and a tiny company that can't produce any stock beyond the guaranteed preorders. I understand their reasons for all this and the incentives to avoid having unsold stock rot in a warehouse, but I hope they understand now that people hate preorders and they need to be prepared for something to explode in popularity once people see it in hand.

 

[Dek]

Am I misremembering them saying they'd do more Elrics? I thought they said other looks were on the table depending on sales.

Not to sound too much like Damien, but one side is full of assholes. Fuck 'em.

We're going to find out.

If they wind up reissuing Elric in a charcoal gray colorway, great. I'll happily eat my words. But for now, they're taking a Mezco-style hardline stance. I have no reason not to believe them.

You are mis-remembering. They told me at Zolocon, they had the license to make one Elric and two othe Moorcock (More Cock) characters. Others speculated the other two may be other versions of Elric, and somehow that became the rumor. They have said multiple time they are making one Elric. That's why they gave him the chaos shield when it doesn't go with this look, they felt it should be included since they won't be able to include it with another version.

But stuff changes. Though right now there is no indication of it changing anytime soon.

 

[Alt]

One piece of advice that's stuck with me and I think about it every time I prepare for a market or artist alley or whatever is "always be prepared for success".

Thanks, man. Post It-ing that on my board.

 

[Dek]

Did anyone mention that they are announcing a new drop figure at the end of the month and an announcement is forth coming?

 

[TheCaptain]

Did anyone mention that they are announcing a new drop figure at the end of the month and an announcement is forth coming?

Is it the one with the red hand teaser that they're saying is the exclusive for JoeFest? Also after all their attempts at explaining their con debut figures vs exclusives I still have no idea whether or not the "exclusive drop figure" they're talking about here will be available somewhere else after the convention.

 

[Dek]

Yes, that is the teaser. Drop figures will be available after cons. Exclusives (and there are two this year) will only be available at cons. Exclusives will be repaints with a twist they said. Drops will always be available for purchase at their store and retail partners. There will mostl likely be limited amounts at their debut con, because they have a limited amount shipped faster for the con. It is extremely pricey to do that, that is why they don't do it with their full shipment.

 

[JakeEkiss]

Is it the one with the red hand teaser

Red hand teaser??? Never mind, found it.

Also, not that anybody needs more reason to get on these, but in case folks missed it, Brynyar and Naraka glow under UV light, the eyes are extremely intense on this alt head for Brynyar (the normal head does it too, but not this much).

 

[Niko (protozoalord)]

I genuinely thought the red hand teaser was for a Caleb Blood figure. And I fucking wish it was.

 

[Dek]

So, I'm putting some ideas out there in good faith. Not trying to start an argument just trying to create some more nuance.

I'm not sure if another run of Elric would be as profitable as people think.

Watching the livestreams they've mentioned they are currently working on projects more than year out, and production of those items are kind of belong put into place. With their parts reuse certain things will probably have to be made by certain dates. That means Elric would probably be prioritized after those projects. We know they are working on Death Dealer, Death Dealer's War Horse, Fafhrd and Grey Mauser, another Frazetta figure, Waves 3 and 4, the new stands, the dragon mounts, a female body, a polar bear, a dog, and a dwarf. Pluse even though they are not annouced we know they are doing two more Moorcock (More Cock) characters too. We don't know where those things are in terms of pre-production, final production, or production schedule.

That means Elric would probably be 18 months from now at the soonest. Would the demand still be there? 18 months is a long time for people to lose interest, gains others, or prioritize that money. I think another run is more maybe complicated than just financial cost.

But I don't know shit.

 

[JakeEkiss]

18 months is a long time for people to lose interest, gains others, or prioritize that money.

I think there are other examples in the market that are fairly direct analogs. Mythic legions have done several sold out runs of fan favorite characters over the years, and none of those characters are attached to a decades old and generally well regarded milestone of fantasy lit nor are most of those on people's figure of the year contender list.

It's a safe bet folks would still be around. Would if be the same sell through? Maybe not, but I'm going to keep saying this, that's why you simply say during the second run preorder that if you don't get X number of orders it doesn't get made. Run the preorder for a month or whatever and collect the money at the end. If you don't get the support needed for a second run, all you're out is the promotion expenditures for the preorder. If you know you're going to have figure drops that you haven't announced between now and then (and we can assume they will because that seems to be part of their drop strategy) then you slot that one in as a substitute so you don't lose any factory time you've reserved if you had to book that in advance or whatever. If it does get made then you push back the figure you haven't announced.

Like, sincerely, why wouldn't that work? It's safe for them, good for fans, and I don't see any downside except that it makes Elric less scarce.

 

[Damien]

I don't see any downside except that it makes Elric less scarce.

And it disincentivizes people from having FOMO about every release. Which, again, is their actual strategy despite what they say.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

For now? You've asked since they woke up this morning 20min ago?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? This is the line they've trotted out at every opportunity.

Maybe not, but I'm going to keep saying this, that's why you simply say during the second run preorder that if you don't get X number of orders it doesn't get made. Run the preorder for a month or whatever and collect the money at the end.

That would be my approach.

 

[Dek]

I think there are other examples in the market that are fairly direct analogs. Mythic legions have done several sold out runs of fan favorite characters over the years, and none of those characters are attached to a decades old and generally well regarded milestone of fantasy lit nor are most of those on people's figure of the year contender list.

It's a safe bet folks would still be around. Would if be the same sell through? Maybe not, but I'm going to keep saying this, that's why you simply say during the second run preorder that if you don't get X number of orders it doesn't get made. Run the preorder for a month or whatever and collect the money at the end. If you don't get the support needed for a second run, all you're out is the promotion expenditures for the preorder. If you know you're going to have figure drops that you haven't announced between now and then (and we can assume they will because that seems to be part of their drop strategy) then you slot that one in as a substitute so you don't lose any factory time you've reserved if you had to book that in advance or whatever. If it does get made then you push back the figure you haven't announced.

Like, sincerely, why wouldn't that work? It's safe for them, good for fans, and I don't see any downside except that it makes Elric less scarce.

You're right.

Burt scarcity is their business model right now. And it works. People remember the scarce figure they missed out on, and they don't let it happen again. I didn't know about the pre-order and had to hunt him down and almost missed out on him like many others. I won't miss out when the pre-order for Fafrd and Grey Mouser comes up, so I guess FOMO worked on me.

Elric was basically made to order, similar to a Haslab model just with a little bit of over run. If people wanted one they needed to order. I get it that sucks but it's what they want to do. Hopefully on future figures they will do higher over runs. But they're not going to abandon this business model because Elric was too popular, if anything it enforces it.

Am I being an apologist. Yeah. But they did something nice for me on a personal level so I'm gonna be. They earned that kind of benefit of the doubt from me. So take everything I say with more grain of salt then McDonalds French Fries.

 

[JakeEkiss]

But they're not going to abandon this business model because Elric was too popular, if anything it enforces it.

Right, and that's what @Damien was saying and I agree. It's not that their model doesn't work, it's that I believe the other model would work too (and the figures would still feel scarce because as you said, there would by necessity be lag time between runs) and I think other companies have proven it. It's not that they're wrong, it's that there's more than one way to be right.

They earned that kind of benefit of the doubt from me. So take everything I say with more grain of salt then McDonalds French Fries.

At the end of the day, while I gripe about it, it's action figures. This is a leisure product. There is nothing happening in the market that is actually important in any real way, including marketing that I don't like.

And fair's fair, everyone who has one, including me, agrees the product itself is best in class. Their marketing, though annoying, will have to be insufferable for a while longer before it puts me fully out of getting their stuff. Like, heck, I'm interested in seeing whatever this red hand thing is. And if it's something that speaks to me I'll probably show up for the in-stock of that too if I can.

 

[adrienveidt]

Are you being intentionally obtuse? This is the line they've trotted out at every opportunity.

Every opportunity they've had to say it after selling out within minutes of their first licensed character, or are *you* being obtuse thinking they haven't realized that their situation has changed?