Mattel DC Figures

[SDcomics]

The Absolute line is a monster in comic shops right now. I work part time in my store on weekends and we sell a ton of it, mostly to young'uns.

I love the books but have no desire for figures. That said, I will be astonished if Mattel doesn't do at least Absolute Batman. I just can't see that not happening.

The Absolute books are hot, like I said. And this is Batman. Batman sells. Batman sells tons. Every vendor and toy manufacturer I have ever talked to have all said it. Batman, Spider-Man and Wolverine are three characters that will never not sell. You could put Batman in a pink tutu and he'll sell.

There are three types of people who buy action figures. One, Hard core collectors who want a complete universe. They haunt the Wal-Marts and Targets. They're all always watching the influencer's video reviews. That would describe most of us. Two, casual buyers who just want a cool action figure to put on their desk at work or home. They change them out once a month or so. (There are more of them than you think). And three, parents. Kids still play with toys.

You wanna know what one of Mattel's biggest selling figures was the first time they had the DC license? Batman as Yellow Lantern.

True story.

 

[Damien]

When this license turned over in 2020, we literally didn’t see anything until New Years Eve/Day. Todd respected the embargo. Todd should get the same courtesy to finish out his contract and sell down his inventory. Same as he gave Mattel. People have curtailed or stopped buying Todd’s stuff already. But he should still be able to make money for the next seven months. Mattel showing prototypes or even digital renders at SDCC is nailing the coffin shut with the resident of said coffin still kicking.

At the same time - Todd would have known he wasn't retaining the license well before we did. He got to choose how to approach his last year with the brand, knowing full well that once word got out sales would probably nosedive. I'm not sure that Mattel showing the collector figures will move the needle a whole lot in either direction for Todd.
Especially when we already can infer a lot from the kids' line. Just showing that does virtually the same damage to Todd as showing the collector line - in theory.

I feel a little bit bad for Todd. He’s in a tough spot. Not able to compete with Hasbro and Mattel, but not a boutique manufacturer either.

Todd has a net worth of around 300 million dollars. He's doing just fine, so I wouldn't feel bad for him at all.
As for his company - being privately owned allows him to make basically any decision he wants, price the way he wants, and essentially answer to no one. He can outprice Hasbro and Mattel if he really wants to, which is a huge advantage (which he has talked about before). He can bring to market all kinds of things they can't really make work, or can't make work at a price point people like. And he can survive/thrive on smaller licenses because he isn't appeasing shareholders.
In some ways, you could even argue he's -better- positioned in the space than Mattel or Hasbro if he'd just stop making idiotic, only-Todd-would-like-this decisions.

I’ve always thought Todd could do a great Judge Dredd line. But could he break even much less turn a profit on Dredd?

As I said above - Todd doesn't need nearly the volume that Hasbro/Mattel needs to be in the black. But also, Judge Dredd and 2000AD more generally, is extremely popular. Especially outside the US. I imagine a proper line would do fairly well for a 'mid-size' company that really took it seriously.
Todd's biggest impediment to strong sales is Todd. His figures are pretty trash and he's not interested in doing them better because he doesn't even like action figures.

 

[Atomic Knight]

That’s the thing. You know Todd had the right of first refusal on Invincible figures. Comics and TV. He coulda made a mint. So why didn’t he? He made all kinds of Walking Dead figures. I don’t get it.

And I really don’t feel that bad for Todd. He tends to land butter side up. But he’s pretty much boxed out of the big toy franchises. And the small/medium size ones don’t seem to interest him.

 

[Damien]

I don’t get it.

Couldn't be simpler.
Todd is rich, doesn't give a shit, and makes what he wants to make. Todd -wanted- to do DC stuff because he's a nerd. Not because he was banking on how much money his toy company could make doing it. Todd makes Marvel statues because he thinks those are cool and artistically interesting and he WANTS to do it, regardless of how much they collect dust at EB.
Todd's gonna do what makes Todd happy and even if his company goes out of business he'll still be super rich and won't fuckin' care. Without shareholders, for good and ill, he has no solid incentive to make sure his company is profitable.

Todd works for Todd. When you really, solidly get that, everything he does makes a lot more sense.

 

[Niko (protozoalord)]

Don't get me wrong, there absolutely should be a bit of everything from every era and for everyone, but only once the line has its foundations.

I grew up with most of my comic book reading being from the one longbox my dad let me keep in my room (and for clarity, my dad is a geek in the same age bracket as most people on these here forums.) In it was every single Batman Elseworld comic, The Killing Joke, Year One, two copies of Batman/Punisher, Batman/Spawn, and the entirety of Cataclysm/No Man's Land. I also had access to Knightfall through him loading up my tablet with a download of it.

So I'm no stranger to all these sorts of Batman AUs, and I would certainly buy figures of a handful. But I'm not really willing to dive nosefirst into any before the line proves it can get out at least a solid version of the trinity, and get started on a few major teams and eras. And this doesn't necessarily mean "Do Silver Age and Bronze Age!", I don't give a shit about sticking to that, I'm a late 80's/90's DC guy primarily with some handful of exceptions like Golden Age Captain Marvel and Golden Age + New 52 Aquaman. I want a bit of everything from every era and multipurpose looks. And I hope our early mainstays have a good variety, Mattel Multiverse dropped the ball by only doing New 52 and Rebirth, DCUC was too tunnel visioned with Silver Age and Superpowers until the absolute end, and McFarlane just made uh... Figures of characters that can only be displayed on their own.

The only exception to this is Red Rain Batman. I'd buy that fucker instantly.

As I said above - Todd doesn't need nearly the volume that Hasbro/Mattel needs to be in the black. But also, Judge Dredd and 2000AD more generally, is extremely popular. Especially outside the US. I imagine a proper line would do fairly well for a 'mid-size' company that really took it seriously.
Todd's biggest impediment to strong sales is Todd. His figures are pretty trash and he's not interested in doing them better because he doesn't even like action figures.

Don't even get me started on theoretical 2000AD figures. I feel my essay about growing up with 90s Batman says enough on where I stand, but anything based on the work of Grant, Wagner, and Mills would be an instant buy. Especially if it's from Strontium Dog.

Hopefully from someone smarter than Todd, though.

 

[Damien]

Hopefully from someone smarter than Todd, though.

I've been cockteased on Dredd so many times now and it's super depressing. First we had the little mini figures that came out when the first movie came out, but were kind of obviously based on a mix of comic and movie stuff. I loved those. But they didn't really go anywhere. Ironically for this thread, those were made by Mattel.

Then Mezco did the One:12 Dredd but I just couldn't justify Mezco's pricing to JUST have Dredd on the shelf since I knew even if they made more characters and bikes and shit, I could NEVER afford that collection. That brand never went anywhere with Mezco anyway.

Then Hiya came along and I just... don't really like their 1:18 figures, which look weird and fragile to me. I think they also did 1:12 figures but I can barely keep track of what Hiya is up to, and they're expensive.

I just want a regular line of Dredd figures where I can get the major characters and a couple of bikes, without spending 3 grand.

 

[Niko (protozoalord)]

I could never justify so much for Dredd, especially if we'll never have at least Anderson and Maybe also Hershey to go with him. (I love Hershey the most for the record)

Hiya Toys' Dredd figures are all fully soft goods, so I couldn't give less of a shit about em. I think Fear and Death are about to come out? I'd buy Fear in an instant from any line without full soft goods.

 

[Damien]

Oh shit, I actually forgot to mention LCBH Dredd and Death. I had both of those and, given the time they came out, I LOVED them. Mean Machine was slated for the doomed Wave 3 (as well as a badass Conan and a fuckin' Frost Giant BAF - I'm still so mad about that wave). I always hoped that line would carry on for years. So much potential.

 

[SDcomics]

At Comic Con last year, Jesse Falcon said that the majority of Marvel Legends are sold to kids under the age of 12. That touched off a whole big conversation online.

I trust Jesse, and I know Hasbro does market research. They do surveys, they have focus groups. But I don't know. DC Universe Classics used to say "Adult Collectibles" right on the package. I still think the three main buyers of 6" highly articulated action figures are the hard line collectors, the more casual collectors, and moms and their kids. In that order.

And then among the collectors you have fans that will ONLY buy Batman and related characters. Or ONLY Green Lantern. Or ONLY Legion. Or ONLY X-Men and other mutants. Or ONLY movie and TV figures. Hasbro and Mattel have to try and thread a needle. Tip it too much in one direction or the other and you may lose people.

At the end of the day, there is one thing I know to be true ... Mattel loves to stick it to Hasbro. And Vice Versa. Take a big ol' bite out of Hasbro's market share? You bet your sweet ass. Mattel's chomping at the bit to do just that.

So the DC Collector's line is going to be the same scale as Marvel Legends. I believe it's going to be a mix of movie, animation, video game and comic figures. And the comics will include classic and modern. There will be BAF waves (Or "collect and connect" if Mattel still calls them that), two-packs, three-packs, convention exclusives, made to order and pretty much everything Hasbro does that Hasbro's had success with. And if the shoe were on the other foot, Hasbro would gleefully do the same to Mattel.

Ha! It's going to be such an interesting SDCC this year. The nice thing is, in the 6" war, the big winners will be the fans.

 

[Damien]

I actually don't believe Falcon about that. Like... at all. I don't think it's supported by any other reporting on the toy industry, including the toy industry's -self-reporting- in their own shareholder talks and various statements. And I don't think it makes any logical sense. Kids under 12 don't have money. Which means they're claiming they sell the majority of MLs to parents for kids.

I am a parent. I am a parent that -collects toys-. And even if my son ONLY collected Marvel toys, which is 100% not the case, I would struggle to justify buying him more than one figure every few waves due to the price (and the fact that most kids under 12 barely play with toys anymore). So ONE adult collector buying ONE wave of figures has already balanced out against all of my 'parent' purchases for the entire year, barring Christmas/birthday. Including Christmas/birthday, that collector might have to buy TWO waves in a year to be equal to what I'm buying as a parent.

In short, this forum alone probably carries enough 'I buy entire waves' collectors to be buying at the same volume as a thousand or more parents.

Falcon's math doesn't math.

 

[spinc]

Well, competition is good. If Hasbro can get to feel Mattel's heat, maybe they'll finally really improve their figures and add value to their products. And if Hasbro improves, then Mattel will need to improve too.

In theory its a positive feedback loop. In practice, well Hasbro seems pretty comfy in their ways, and specially the ML team, very slow to change. And Mattel, while seemingly having improved much in these few last years, might be too big to actually listen to fans to be able to improve. Big companies tend to be very slow to change, heck even smaller companies (like Mcfarlane) don't change at all even when fans want them to.

 

[Atomic Knight]

At Comic Con last year, Jesse Falcon said that the majority of Marvel Legends are sold to kids under the age of 12. That touched off a whole big conversation online.

I trust Jesse, and I know Hasbro does market research. They do surveys, they have focus groups. But I don't know. DC Universe Classics used to say "Adult Collectibles" right on the package. I still think the three main buyers of 6" highly articulated action figures are the hard line collectors, the more casual collectors, and moms and their kids. In that order.

And then among the collectors you have fans that will ONLY buy Batman and related characters. Or ONLY Green Lantern. Or ONLY Legion. Or ONLY X-Men and other mutants. Or ONLY movie and TV figures. Hasbro and Mattel have to try and thread a needle. Tip it too much in one direction or the other and you may lose people.

At the end of the day, there is one thing I know to be true ... Mattel loves to stick it to Hasbro. And Vice Versa. Take a big ol' bite out of Hasbro's market share? You bet your sweet ass. Mattel's chomping at the bit to do just that.

So the DC Collector's line is going to be the same scale as Marvel Legends. I believe it's going to be a mix of movie, animation, video game and comic figures. And the comics will include classic and modern. There will be BAF waves (Or "collect and connect" if Mattel still calls them that), two-packs, three-packs, convention exclusives, made to order and pretty much everything Hasbro does that Hasbro's had success with. And if the shoe were on the other foot, Hasbro would gleefully do the same to Mattel.

Ha! It's going to be such an interesting SDCC this year. The nice thing is, in the 6" war, the big winners will be the fans.

All true. And even if there isn’t a panel or press conference, we know what a great detective you are Mike. I expect you to do your best possible snooping. And report back here with as much as you can share without breaking any confidences. All off the record of course. Can’t burn sources.

 

[SDcomics]

I actually don't believe Falcon about that. Like... at all.

Yeah. I like Jesse, I trust Jesse, but ... that's not adding up. I know there's a lot of moms, I know kids love Spider-Man and Batman, but ... I can't imagine little Tommy's mom buying him a Mephisto for Christmas.

Unless, you know, little Tommy's being raised by the dude from Silence of the Lambs.

 

[Atomic Knight]

Oh shit, I actually forgot to mention LCBH Dredd and Death. I had both of those and, given the time they came out, I LOVED them. Mean Machine was slated for the doomed Wave 3 (as well as a badass Conan and a fuckin' Frost Giant BAF - I'm still so mad about that wave). I always hoped that line would carry on for years. So much potential.

I recall buying a set of Dredd figures years ago from what I assume was a British company. ReAction I believe it was called. It wasn’t just Dredd. It was 2000 AD and included Johnny Alpha, Slaine, as well as Dredd Anderson, and Death. I think there was a sixth figure but I don’t remember who it was.

They were fantastic. I wish I still owned them.

 

[Damien]

Yeah. I like Jesse, I trust Jesse, but ... that's not adding up. I know there's a lot of moms, I know kids love Spider-Man and Batman, but ... I can't imagine little Tommy's mom buying him a Mephisto for Christmas.

Unless, you know, little Tommy's being raised by the dude from Silence of the Lambs.

Not to harp on it but.... yeah.
Do the math. How many kids are there in countries where these figures sell at retail or other outlets that parents are likely to encounter them? How many of those kids are actually of an age to play with Marvel Legends figures (I'd say older than 6, younger than 13 to hit Jesse's '12 and under'). How many of those kids like Marvel toys. Of the remaining kids, how many of them have parents that will buy them a massively overpriced collector figure instead of one of Hasbro's 5-10 POA figures that are somewhere around 2/3 to half the price of a Legends figure.

The math doesn't math at fucking all. And that's before you factor in all the figures Hasbro makes that are clearly not intended for kids - whether because of the character or because of the release strategy (basically, all exclusives and anything that will not appear at brick and mortar retail or Amazon).

And we can also, at the same time, examine how many 'for kids' lines fail miserably at retail. Over and over again. Which directly contradicts the idea that kids under 13 are even buying toys in enough quantity to support the toy industry at all.

It's just a statement that is so transparently unlikely that I would need a massive amount of data put in front of me supporting it for me to even think it -might- be true.