Marvel Cinematic Universe Figure Discussion

[AceofKnaves]

My wife and I both loved Agatha All Along.
Same with Moon Knight.
Top-tier stuff.

 

[altcunningham]

I'm with you. The list of musicals I can sit through, let alone enjoy, is incredibly short, so I was ready to cringe through that... And didn't at all. I've got to be one of the few others that likes Larson as Danvers, but really loved the dynamic between the main three, with Kamala being a major favorite. My only complaint with Marvels may be 'put back the stuff you cut'.

Also thought it was cool they even pulled the singing gimmick from the comics. I appreciate fresh effort even when its rough, and Marvels did that for me. I'll take that over repeatable safety pap, which other MCU sequels can be for me.

And I also love Larson as Danvers. My perfect cast was Charlize Theron, but I like what she/Marvel do with it.

 

[Enforcer]

Sigh. “Comic movies are for boys!!!!” is such tired screed.
Anyway.

Never said this btw. Nerdy fellas make up a significant portion of the viewership, and it's a good thing when properties are made to appeal specifically to different demographics - the audience may just not be there. The brand has definitely taken a hit no matter how you look at it. Thunderbolts was a genuinely decent movie that didn't deserve such a low box office.

 

[Felonious Monk]

If they put that exact singing to communicate idea in a Guardians film it would have been praised more than derided.

 

[joshsquash729]

When did the MCU establish Captain Marvel as gay or bi? I don't remember them showing her having any sexual interest in anyone at all, although I may have fallen asleep during The Marvels and missed something.

Are people using gaydar for this? What's the evidence?

I don't blame you for missing it- Thunderbolts* wasn't the first time Disney employed the use of such a heavy asterisk. They love LGBT* characters (that asterisk here meaning they love them as long as such moments can easily be cut around for international audiences ) I've been under the Disney trance all my life- I love the movies and fall for its charm- but even I can see clear as day that they're so afraid of offending folks that they often refuse to take a stand (but, to be fair, the same can be said for, like, every company pretty much).

 

[joshsquash729]

I see the issue as being the MCU hasn't picked its new main characters. We knew who that major players were, and saw them often in Phases 1-3. Even guys like Ant-Man or Doctor Strange by year 4 of them being introduced, we saw them in 4 projects. They got exposure to a wide audience. Where is Shang-Chi? Or Moon Knight? The only ones they have used multiple projects Yelena and Kamala, got exposure in a movie and on D+ and that's not exaclty like being features in a movie and a massive Avengers crossover. They didn't get the wider exposure. Marvel needs to focus on who the new main characters are and build around them. Not do all this spaghetti on the wall. They tried doing too many things at once.

Also, we can't expect everything to be billion dollar movies day one. Look at what Phase 1 movies pre Avengers made. You have to build that house of cards up. So you need to be okay starting with smaller grosses and growing them over time.

This is a good point that I hadn't really considered. From the sound of things, it's pretty clear that they've chosen Spidey as a main character moving forward. One could argue Bucky is as well, since he shows up so often, and to a lesser degree Strange. Wong's not a focus by any means, but he's nice connective tissue. Like you said, it seems like Yelena and Kamala are overarching figures too, though I hope the apparent failure of Thunderbolts at the box office doesn't make them re-consider that. I wouldn't be surprised to see Reed or the F4 start showing up more often as well.

 

[AceofKnaves]

Honestly I wish that they’d use FF to reboot/recast the whole shebang in a fun, retro setting. I tend to think Marvel stories work best in a 60s-80s time period. The closer to “modern” issues they get, the more muddied with current events they get. I don’t know that Marvel has that “timeless” quality like the big DC heroes.

 

[joshsquash729]

Honestly I wish that they’d use FF to reboot/recast the whole shebang in a fun, retro setting. I tend to think Marvel stories work best in a 60s-80s time period. The closer to “modern” issues they get, the more muddied with current events they get. I don’t know that Marvel has that “timeless” quality like the big DC heroes.

Oh yeah, the retro-futuristic aesthetic would work great for a lot of Marvel heroes. I think that's part of what I love so much about the Incredibles- you could make an argument that it takes place in the past, present, or future, and all would be believable. It's nice they're putting in so much effort to keeping the timeline as modern day as possible, but it does ironically limit them in a lot of ways.

Posted over in the general MCU discussion as well, but Fantastic Four tickets are on sale now. Still holding out hope we'll somehow get the figures before the movie. Used to be a silly little tradition of mine to bring a figure to the movies, but I haven't been able to do that in a long time.

 

[EnigmaticClarity]

As a huge fan of both Stan Lee and Marvel I will never understand people disliking modern comics. The great majority of 1960s and 1970s comics are unreadable from a modern perspective, and I usually assume it's nostalgia misleading people to think comic stories used to be better in the earlier days of Marvel and DC.

Writing quality on comics took a big jump in the 2000s. Before that the stereotype of comics was that they were for kids so good writers weren't attracted to the medium, but by the 2000s superheroes were extending into the mainstream of acceptibility and comics were attracting writers who previously would have gone into journalism, film screenplays, or other forms of more artistic literature.

 

[joshsquash729]

As a huge fan of both Stan Lee and Marvel I will never understand people disliking modern comics. The great majority of 1960s and 1970s comics are unreadable from a modern perspective, and I usually assume it's nostalgia misleading people to think comic stories used to be better in the earlier days of Marvel and DC.

Writing quality on comics took a big jump in the 2000s. Before that the stereotype of comics was that they were for kids so good writers weren't attracted to the medium, but by the 2000s superheroes were extending into the mainstream of acceptibility and comics were attracting writers who previously would have gone into journalism or more artistic literature.

Comics have always been a nice mirror of the times. I think a large part of them getting darker and more serious is due in large part to 9/11 and everything that's happened since. I know that's a heady, sensitive topic, and one we could argue ad-nauseum, but our heroes have always tackled issues that have to do with the current culture. The MCU as a whole definitely helped with public perception, but I'd also argue writers like Alan Moore, who told serious, adult stories through the medium of comics, have also helped their reputation. It still surprises me every time I walk into my LCS on new comic day and see older businessmen in nice suits picking up a stack of comics (then again, what is a nerdy adult but a nerdy kid all grown up?)

 

[AceofKnaves]

Yeah, 9/11 was kind of the point when Marvel started to lose me, not because of quality but because of tone. Too many heroes became villains from my perspective, and stories got militant. Civil War was pretty much my point of no return.

 

[joshsquash729]

To get somewhat back to the topic of figures- AMC showed off some of their concession items for F4, including a Galactus popcorn bucket. I'm not expecting it to be huge, but I wonder how it would look with Legends around it.

Spoiler: Galactus Bucket

Edited to add: apparently it's 20 inches wide and 17.5 inches tall, so not entirely to scale, but could still make for a pretty epic display piece.

 

[EnigmaticClarity]

Civil War was pretty much my point of no return.

The idea of superheroes being able to do what they do separate from local or global law enforcement was always unrealistically simplistic so I've always liked the idea of Civil War exploring ways of making superheroes more realistic. What about that storyline didn't you like--something about the tone as you noted?

 

[AceofKnaves]

What about that storyline didn't you like--something about the tone as you noted?

Specifically, I didn’t like the fascist-ization of Iron Man and his team, even moreso because the editorial team at the time assumed the reading public would side with him. Much like the film of the same name, it was obvious which “side” was right, and in both cases it relegated Iron Man to a real scumbag. I’m a huge Iron Man fan, but I’m into the “recovering alcoholic trying to do better and be good and responsible” version rather than “swaggering bully militant douchebag”, and in the comic version add “murderer” to that. Just a whole lot of Marvel from that time felt like Quesada just being an edgelord kid about it all and then crying “REALISM”! Not my vibe at all. It was all just . . . mean.

 

[EnigmaticClarity]

Specifically, I didn’t like the fascist-ization of Iron Man and his team, even moreso because the editorial team at the time assumed the reading public would side with him. Much like the film of the same name, it was obvious which “side” was right, and in both cases it relegated Iron Man to a real scumbag.

I disagree entirely, and to illustrate why I'll ask a question I'm pretty sure Tony Stark asked in the film. Why should superheroes get to do whatever they want and whenever they want and ignore both the law and social consequences of their actions? Should we give police and the military the same power you're thinking is obvious we should give to superheroes? Do powers make superheroes inherently moral? ALL of my experience in life and in studying history suggests exactly the opposite--the more power an individual has the LESS moral they tend to be, or put more simply as a cliche absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's one reason I love The Boys--Ennis realized that power tends to corrupt, so he depicts most superheroes as real scumbags who absolutely, positively should not go unchecked by laws or consequences.

I get what you're saying. Every fiber of my being as a fan of superheroes told me I shouldn't be on Tony's side either and I'm sure most of the audience felt exactly the same in the obvious way you describe, but the only way to be against him or to describe his line of thinking as fascist is to not truly explore the question. And that's what I also loved about Civil War in the comics--no, we shouldn't give superheroes a blank check to do whatever they want.

And this is just one example of a modern comic exploring a depth of story and human nature that pre-2000 comics VERY rarely ever even acknowledged. Modern comics are SO much better than the early comics. Early comics that I love, by the way, and that I have thousands of in my house.